Episode 35 – Dominique Tolbert (Hospitality Business and Liberia)

Fred Rocafort  0:08 

Global law and global business go hand in hand, but never seem to keep pace with each other. The importance on the global stage of developing and developed nations waxes and wanes, while consumption and interconnectedness steadily increase all the while laws and regulations change incessantly requiring businesses to stay nimble. But how do we make sense of it all? Welcome to Global Law and Business posted by Harris Sliwoski’s International Business attorneys. I’m Fred Rocafort.

 

Jonathan Bench  0:37 

And I’m Jonathan Bench. Every week, we take a targeted look at legal and economic developments in locales around the world as we try to decipher global trends in law and business with the help of international experts. We cover continents, countries, regimes, governance, finance, legal developments, and whatever is trending on Twitter. We covered the important, the seemingly unimportant, the relatively simple and the complex.

 

Fred Rocafort  1:02 

We hope you enjoy today’s podcast. Please connect with us on social media to comment and suggest future topics and guests.

 

Jonathan Bench  1:22 

Dominique Tolbert is a first generation Liberian American who grew up in Maryland and the Greater Washington DC metropolitan area, navigating our way through multiple cultures while using food as a way to stay connected to home. Dominic attended New York University where she earned a Bachelor of Science in Hotel and Tourism Management. She currently runs her African fusion catering business and has developed a line of spice blends inspired by flavors of the African diaspora. Dominic is currently pursuing a global MBA degree at George Washington University, strengthening her professional expertise across a variety of business environments. Our long term goal is to develop the hotel and tourism industries of Liberia and West Africa at large through various local and international partnership efforts. Dominique, welcome to Harris Sliwoski Global lawn business.

 

Dominique Tolbert  2:10 

Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

 

Fred Rocafort  2:13 

Dominic, welcome. Could you please tell us a little bit more about yourself and maybe explain how is it that you got to where you are now what were the inflection points that that took you in this particular direction?

 

Dominique Tolbert  2:28 

Yeah, of course, my journey is, is a little bit weird, a little untraditional. I’ll say for me. I initially wanted to go to culinary school. Growing up, I was always in the kitchen. I just was fascinated with food. And I just knew that I wanted to make in my whole entire life. Subsequently, I ended up going to NYU and pursued a degree in hotel and Tourism Management. So getting more of the business side of the industry. By honing in on some of my culinary passions. I work largely in food and beverage. Throughout multiple internships, study abroad experiences, I had the opportunity to travel to Cuba. And one of the earlier days when Americans were allowed to travel to Cuba and looking at agriculture and food industries. They’re also interned in Shanghai working with the Four Seasons in a food and beverage capacity. And then after graduation, I moved out to Las Vegas, started as a restaurant manager with MGM resorts. And, you know, just continue growing and honing in on my skills and management related to the hospitality and food and beverage industry. After a couple of years, I decided, Okay, it’s time for me to continue exploring this culinary passion of mine. So I relocated back to the east coast and started cooking with the Four Seasons, and was there for a couple of years and then did my own thing with entrepreneurship and catering companies and things of that nature. And now I’m getting my MBA. So it’s a very untraditional path that has taken me all over the place. But I’ve really been able to explore a lot of my interests, which is great, because I think they all have lent great experience to where I am today.

 

Jonathan Bench  4:09 

So would you say that you are interested in hospitality? Is that rooted in your family’s background in Africa? I’m very curious if it’s a you know, Liberia has a great cooking culture, or if it’s something that kind of came to you a different way.

 

Dominique Tolbert  4:25 

I mean, food is a part of you know, Liberian culture, a part of West African culture at large. It’s, you know, people are connecting with one another over food, whether it’s at the dining table, in the kitchen, or wherever else, it’s, you know, food is a huge part of culture. You get together at the end of the day or the beginning of the day to share stories to learn. And so, you know, that’s just That in itself, and I think my interest in hospitality was seeing how food brought people together, but then also seeing how traveling to different countries and experiencing cultures through food was something that was really enjoy an enjoyable experience to me. So then thinking holistically to say, Okay, what are the components of getting an individual to travel to a country? Whether it’s to West Africa to Liberia, specifically? How does that experience look for them? are they staying in luxury hotels? are they staying in eco lodges? are they learning how to cook over the open flame? Or are they dining in high end restaurants? And so I don’t know, it’s just some things that I enjoyed learning about culture, through food and through travel, and then seeing how others have enjoyed that experience made me want to be a part of that as well and to deliver that experience to others. And so I would say that’s probably how I came or became interested in hospitality.

 

Jonathan Bench  5:47 

And then can you talk for a minute about how the African diaspora I assume, focusing mostly in the us about how that has impacted the way you do business? I mean, I’m very interested to hear how you, how you market to the community, are you kind of marketing, you know, the great food components of African Diaspora to a greater audience?

 

Dominique Tolbert  6:08 

Yeah, before I became an entrepreneur, I would say I kind of started testing out the idea of entrepreneurship. Like when I was in college at NYU, I would host something called Sunday dinners and basically cook a huge meal for friends and friends of friends and just be like, Hey, bring drinks or bring dessert. And then we can all meet a bunch of different people throughout the city, while engaging over a Sunday meal. And I caught it Sunday dinner, because in Liberia, and in many other cultures, you know, on Sundays, people get together and they eat this huge feast. And you know, they get ready for the next week ahead. And so I thought that was a cool way to bring people together, meet, meet strangers and become friends and share community or build community over food. And I wanted to do that through African cuisine, in a sense, you know, my, my experience with cuisine is Liberian food, first and foremost, and then also Trinidadian food just growing up around Trinidad, Ian’s and, you know, going to New York also seeing that there’s a lot of Latin Americans there a lot of Africans from the diaspora, a lot of Caribbean’s and really looking at some of the ingredients that we use, and noticing that there are a lot of similarities, just different flavor profiles. And so that was kind of my interest in you know, creating these spaces surrounding African Diaspora cuisine, because you can connect with people on different levels, and you can still see something that they say, Hey, I eat this back home, or my grandmother used to cook XYZ. But I’m just presenting it in a different way. And so seeing how that was popular in New York and undergrad, and then me deciding to step out into entrepreneurship. A few years later, after getting experience in culinary. That was the whole premise of it, connecting people over African diasporic cuisine, making strangers become friends arguing over the last bite. So even with the pop ups that I’ve done in the past, everything has been family style cuisine, to kind of promote that shared culture and community building around food.

 

Fred Rocafort  8:10 

So Dominique, I’d like to know more about how you ended up in Shanghai, that experience of living in China, could you share some of the perspectives that that gave you on business generally? And if possible, perhaps you could contrast that to what you have learned about business in Africa? What have you learned in each of those settings? And how do those lessons compared to one another?

 

Dominique Tolbert  8:37 

Yeah, so I will start with the last bit of your question, in terms of how what I learned in Shanghai and business contrast to West Africa or Liberia more specifically, I will say when I when I first got to Shanghai, I stepped off the plane was in the airport. And I just remember feeling like, Okay, I’m in West Africa, but in China, just the mannerisms of some of the men in the airport, some of the style, the way that they were talking and everything like that, I just remember feeling very familiar with the environment, and that it was something that I already had experience with. And that was strange for me because again, I had never been to China before. I didn’t. I don’t think I knew anyone who went to China. So I didn’t know they didn’t know much other than what I had been reading and watching YouTube videos. And so that was my first you know, kind of just aha moment like, Okay, this is this is interesting. And thinking about Liberia and West Africa, you know, and China as well. You there’s a vibrancy of the cultures. There’s a vibrancy, when you’re in the streets here going to the market, you’re going to meetings or whatever else. And you feel this in both places. It’s an energy that’s there. There’s a there’s a hustle, there’s a bustle, there’s this business. Mind and mentality of you know, I’m, I need to get this done. I’m doing this work, I’m making this money. And I just remember seeing the similarities of culture from that standpoint.

 

Secondly, I would say when I was out in Shanghai, not only was I studying there, I was also interning, and so I was interning for the Four Seasons, and Pucci. And that was my first time working with the four seasons. And having worked with the four seasons in Baltimore and Maryland. And then, you know, having visited some of the different properties in the United States and around the world, that was my first time really seeing and experiencing firsthand how a brand translates across markets, and the importance of a brand being able to do this while still maintaining its integrity. And I think that’s a huge lesson that I’ve learned in business and as being an entrepreneur now, how can I continue to create the experience through hospitality through me, Mesean spices across markets, and people still recognize what this brand means and have that feeling whether it’s in New York City, whether it’s in LA, whether it’s in Monrovia, Liberia or elsewhere. And so those were the two main lessons that I learned from in China. And today, you know, I think, having similarities in the way that you’re moving and your mannerisms and your culture and things of that nature. I think that’s one thing that has kind of landed for China to  do business in West Africa, because they do business in a similar way. It’s really about you know, there’s a loyalty factor to doing business in China, you want to make sure that you and your family are taken care of you want to make sure that business stays within the community and that you all are making money together. And I think that’s the same thing. That’s to be said, and West African and Liberia. And that brings some issues, but also brings beneficial things as well, I think that has allowed China to to thrive in some West African countries, because only ending up in Shanghai, China was it was very random. I had a choice to study abroad and so many different countries and cities. So there was London, there was Paris, Florence, I think, Sydney, and many of those European countries I had already traveled to when I was younger. But China, there was no reason for me to go to China I at that time, I didn’t know anyone in China, I didn’t have a lot of Chinese friends at Korean friends throughout undergrad, but there was no opportunity to go to Seoul or anything like that. And so it was purely on the basis of there’s no reason for me to go to China, I probably will never have any other opportunity to go to China. So let me go to China. And that’s kind of how I made that decision. My experience there, though, was it was great. And so I enjoyed being in Shanghai, I had a chance to travel to Beijing also, and then traveled to some other Asian countries while I was there. Unfortunately, I haven’t been back to the region since I left. But it was a great experience. I think what I learned there, it was tough because I went there as a black woman. Also at the time I was bald, I’m growing hair again. But like being a bald black woman in China is just like you’re gonna stick out like a sore thumb. So that was one part of it. Also, not knowing the language, I had the opportunity to learn or take Chinese Mandarin lessons while I was there. That was another thing it can be a little bit difficult to move around in China and Shanghai, even though it’s a pretty international city if you don’t know the language. And so I say all that to say it was difficult, but at the same time, it was a humbling and also a great learning experience because me interning there allowed me to get a lot more localized insights into Chinese culture into Shanghainese culture that some of my classmates didn’t get. Yes, I was learning Mandarin and pinion. But me working with Chinese people gave me a whole nother perspective to language, and then also to food. And so Shanghai was great. Um, I was there for about six months, I wish I could have stayed longer. And it’s someplace that I want to go back again, I don’t know if I would be able to do it. The same way that I did, because it was about seven years ago, I was younger, had a different level of hustle and grit. And I don’t know if the city is still that way and how, how accepting it is or welcoming it is to to somebody like me at this point in time.

 

Jonathan Bench  14:43 

So hearing you speak about your experiences makes me think that you know, even though your background is in Hospitality and Culinary Arts, you know, pursuing an MBA, I feel like that you’re using food as a way to keep your education going, right. I mean that you’re in I would think that seeking out new cuisines and incorporating even things that you’re familiar with, there has to be a near infinite variety of ways to mix spices and food and environment to create a unique experience. So what you know, how, how do you see that this food is part of your education, an ongoing basis? And, you know, where do you get your, your inspiration from?

 

Dominique Tolbert  15:22 

Yeah, my inspiration is, I mean, inspiration for me comes through just my quest to experience a different cultures and like, that’s the way that I learned through travel through food, and through experience. And so, me having opportunities to do that is an inspiration, in a sense. And food has always been a part of everything that I’ve done in so many ways, even as an MBA student. Now, there’s been several consulting projects that I’ve worked on, that have taken me to, you know, many different parts of Africa, unfortunately, virtually given the circumstances, but have allowed me to see how food is used in other ways. So I was working on an impact investment project focusing on sustainable food supply systems, and Rwanda, East Africa is not a part of Africa that I have experienced with I’ve traveled to a few West African countries. And you know, me being from Liberia. That’s the kind of culture that I know. But it was interesting to see the entrepreneurial landscape in East Africa and in Rwanda, to see how impact investment and venture capital is a factor there and kind of compare and contrast that to the West African market, which is a little bit its is underdeveloped, compared to East Africa, because of infrastructure, because of political history, because of lack of technology, and, and things of that nature. But it’s been interesting to see how food has allowed me to, to see how business operates in other parts of the world. I also was fortunate to work on a market entry strategy for a South African confectionery company, again, looking at another part of Africa and seeing how social entrepreneurship comes to play and to see how you can translate a product again, as I mentioned before, how a company can still be relatable in the global markets, and how this company can enter the US and, you know, ways of doing so. And so even though I’m in pursuing an MBA, I’ve been able to see food operate in different ways. And outside of what I’m used to catering and hosting pop up events and creating products, which is, which is beautiful, because food is food is everything. In a sense, food is life. And you see how different economies have been able to use food and different in different ways.

 

Fred Rocafort  17:43 

So what are your thoughts generally on entrepreneurship in Liberia, and West Africa, this is certainly a part of the world that we are interested in, we are definitely looking forward to having having more guests who can share their experiences doing business in those areas. So we’d really appreciate your take on that.

 

Dominique Tolbert  18:05 

Yeah, I mean, when you’re talking about the entrepreneurial landscape in Liberia, it’s a lot different than West Africa at large. Liberia is one of the unfortunately most underdeveloped countries in the world, one of the most corrupt countries in the world, and one of the most poverty stricken countries in the world. From the time they had a coup in 1982, following two subsequent civil wars, the country has not quite been able to regain and make strides fortunately, they’ve stayed away from war, and civil unrest for the most part. But in terms of developing the country, in different economies, it’s been difficult. It’s been a struggle. So the entrepreneurial landscape there is, is very green. There are some people who are doing great things. And I will say the people who are in entrepreneurship that are really making strides in the country in the region are in agriculture. There’s a great Minister of Agriculture there who was doing a lot of things when a Goa I believe has now it’s it’s either no longer a program or it’s something that’s about to be disbanded. But she was prior to her position. She was doing a lot with, you know, ensuring that different agriculture based businesses and Liberia could come to the US and you know, promote their businesses and their products. And there’s a landscape there. I think one thing that’s cool about Liberia is that recently, there’s been a lot of youth. Liberians who were born outside of Liberia who want to go back, who want to go back and you know, bring this knowledge and things that they’ve learned whether here in the US or abroad elsewhere and you know, see how they can develop the country and I think that’s nice because you’re getting fresh ideas. fresh perspective. And people who are who are not jaded in a sense or in who are ready to work, which is cool, but the environment is still very green. And as I mentioned, compared to East Africa, the infrastructure in Liberia and in lots of countries in West Africa is not as developed, whether that’s from a technical standpoint, or otherwise, you know, technology infrastructures aren’t there. So when you see different countries, being able to have a more robust Vc environment, such as in Kenya, or Rwanda, for example, those are things that are not able to happen in Liberia at this time. Countries such as Nigeria, and Ghana, they are their entrepreneurial landscape is is greater I would say similarly, though, they do have a lot of young people who are at the forefront of that, you know, doing things with agriculture, also doing things within food and beverage, especially in Ghana and Nigeria, like both of their food scenes are starting to grow. Like I have a friend, a fellow chef, and from New York, who recently moved back to Ghana to Accra, and open up a restaurant and there’s other chefs there who are doing cool things, innovative things to kind of push the envelope. I think one thing that helped Ghana to really get where they are recently in terms of having more people across the Diaspora visit and kind of engage with the country in different manners was your of the return. And so really encouraging black people of the Diaspora to go home and to see what Africa is like to see what Ghana is like, and to do so in a way that really hasn’t been done in the past. So those kinds of things that Nigeria and Ghana are doing are things that library can learn from, but the environment is still very green and needs a lot of work.

 

Fred Rocafort  21:51 

Could you tell us a little bit about the president of Liberia?

 

Dominique Tolbert  21:54 

A football player.

 

Fred Rocafort  21:57 

Yeah, yeah. it’s, it’s wild for me, because this this is a guy that when I was younger, he was he was still playing right. And it’s a little it’s a little wild to see him now being the president of Liberia he used to play for Milan and Europe. I mean, he was a big deal. Right. I mean, it’s not just that he had a background in sport. It’s he was a really big deal back in the early and mid 90s. I mean, do you have any, any sense of of how he is viewed in Liberia these days?

 

Dominique Tolbert  22:29 

He’s not viewed very highly, him becoming president was good in theory, in a sense, because, you know, he was for the people of the people, that kind of thing. He was very relatable to the everyday person, which is the majority of of Liberia who does not have and he was kind of a rags to riches story, in a sense, and that’s relatable to a lot of people who are looking for something more than what they have. However, as is with most politicians, they deliver a lot of false promises. And he did, and unfortunately hasn’t lived up to any of them during his his three years. So far, each term is six years. So he has three more years ago. I do also want to add a caveat. So president Whea was essentially handed a bankrupt country, and him having very little political experience prior, unless he appointed a strong cabinet and team surrounding him, he was bound to fail. So essentially, that’s where we are today. Liberia recently had elections for Senatorial and Representative seats, many of which were actually won by the party not affiliated with the presidency. People are a little bit skeptical about it. They weren’t sure how the country was going to handle it. But things remain peaceful. I think the general sentiment is that librarians are ready for somebody else. It’s been three years and the country is in a worse position than it was when he started. I think Liberians are looking for a leader that can do more than has been done.

 

Fred Rocafort  24:07 

And for folks who might not be might not follow global soccer that closely. The president’s son is also a footballer, but he actually plays for the US. So a little little tidbit for, for folks out there.

 

Jonathan Bench  24:22 

So Dominique, a minute ago, you mentioned the issue called the return of African Diaspora are being encouraged to come back and see, you know, see what’s going on in in Africa. I’m very interested to hear how you know how Africans and then African Diaspora How do you talk about the African identity, and it’s such a big continent, and it’s got to have so many different cultures, even within countries. It just seems so big. How do you how do you make sense of it and how do you talk about it among among fellow Africans and fellow African, African Americans, others in the diaspora?

 

Dominique Tolbert  24:57 

Yeah, I think one of the reasons why the year of the return was so successful is because Africans in the diaspora, black people of the Diaspora have gotten more comfortable with talking about what that identity is, right. So for me, as a first gen American, it’s always been a little bit difficult for me to identify or for me to talk about what that is. And then even more difficult because I’m Liberian. So growing up in America, I grew up in a predominantly black neighborhood for half of my life then went to a more very conservative white neighborhood. Even though I grew up in America as an American in a sense, I feel like I grew up more librarian like my first friends were Liberians whether they were my cousins or family, friends, the food that I ate, just the kind of conversations we had. That was that and so it was also being around black people. It’s like, okay, she’s black, but she’s also African. Being around white people is like, okay, she’s black. And some of them knew I was African. But it’s just like, what does that mean? Exactly? Going to college is when I really started to be around other people of the diaspora. So Caribbean, Latin Americans, and just seeing what blackness look like from other other views and other lens, and then also being around other Africans. And I think as Liberians Liberians have a history with America, a long standing history, where, you know, free people wanted to return to Africa. And they were a lot of them return to Liberia. And so there’s also that where some folks are like, Oh, you’re not really African, because you’re Liberian, because you are really from America, in a sense. So it’s always kind of living in this between state of EMI, Liberian enough, am I African enough? Am I black enough? What am I Where do I really fit in, and then, you know, being a black woman in America, that’s an experience within itself, right. And so I think over the past few years, with the Black Lives Matter movement, with more Africans of the Diaspora going home, or, you know, spending time between their home countries or their families, countries in the US, and just kind of sharing knowledge sharing culture, people being more open to sharing stories that might be similar to mine has really kind of helped and to fuel that movement. And I think also for black people, and not to speak for everyone, but things in America aren’t that great for black people right now. So wanting to, to know where else you are accepted. And so knowing that you have countries in Africa, specifically, that are welcoming you to come back into explore your roots, or just to learn about their culture. And to just live is nice, because here in America, you have to be on edge a lot of the time. So I will say, you know, that’s what the black experiences. That’s what the African experiences, that’s how the year of the return has been successful, because we will want to see, where else can we survive? Where else can we thrive? Where else are we accepted outside of America.

 

Jonathan Bench  27:59 

Fascinating. Thank you for sharing that. It’s been great to have you on the show with us today. We always like to close by asking our guests for recommendations for our audience and what something you’ve read or listened to, or watched recently that either is on point on the topic or do something you think would be interesting. Do you have anything you’d recommend for us today?

 

Dominique Tolbert  28:20 

Yeah, so I have two things I want to recommend. And I guess they’re kind of on brand talking about, you know, China and Africa and the diaspora. But I was watching a documentary on Netflix the other day, it’s called Andre and His Olive Tree, if I’m not mistaken. So it’s about a Taiwanese chef Andre Chang, who, you know, traveled the world learning and honing his craft in the culinary arts opened up a restaurant in Singapore received accolades is one of the first, you know, Asians to really be recognized in the culinary field. And, you know, at kind of the height of his success, he decided to close his restaurant down, and go back home to Taiwan and open concepts there. So I think that’s interesting, because, you know, no matter where we are in life, no matter what we do, how much we’re able to accomplish. It’s It’s interesting how how we go back home, and how much of a pull that home has on a lot of us. And I think that’s relatable to me. Because, for me, even though I never, I wasn’t born in Liberia, I didn’t grow up there. I’ve never actually lived there. It’s still home. And everything that I’ve done has kind of pulled me to go back home and to do things and to be involved in what’s going on back home. So it’s a great documentary that you know, talks about that journey, and I think it’s relatable. And there’s also a short book, or collection of stories that I’m reading by an author Fabrice. I don’t know how to pronounce his name. I’m sorry Fabrice If you listen to this,  Guerrier,  g u e, r r o e r. So he’s a fellow global shaper with me and recently got nominated or he, he’s on Forbes 30, under 30. And I think it’s important to, you know, highlight black authors, he’s Haitian, talking about black stories, and writing from different perspectives, writing from, you know, historical lens writing from a fiction lens writing from a sci fi, fantasy lens. And I think that’s important. So there’s a collection of short stories called Golden Veins. So if anybody’s interested in that you should definitely support purchase. And, you know, check out what what black people are writing what stories were telling, because they are important.

 

Jonathan Bench  30:43 

Thank you, Dominique. Appreciate those recommendations. Fred, what do you have for us today?

 

Fred Rocafort  30:48 

Well, my recommendation today is very topical. And perhaps by the time this goes live, it won’t be as interesting to some folks. But I still recommend that you take a look with all of this talk that we have been hearing about the electoral college, I think it’s fair to say that for some of us, it has raised questions. I mean, we know we know what it does in principle, but the mechanics of how it works, certainly to me, were quite a mystery. So today, I decided to actually follow along for for a little bit, at least, and observe the voting by the electors here in Florida, where I am at the moment. And of course, this took place in every other state as well. So I imagine that the proceedings in most states will be available on c span or somewhere else. So I would recommend for folks who are interested in our system of government to just take a look, it was actually very enlightening to see how it takes place. I think most of us know that it is the the electors that actually like the president. But up until now, it’s been something of a mysterious part of our system, as the electoral college comes under increasing scrutiny, and is the focus of more and more attention. I think it’s worthwhile to take a look and and see how how things actually go down. So Electoral College proceedings. That’s my recommendation for for this weekend, Jonathan, what about you?

 

Jonathan Bench  32:16 

I’m recommending a newsletter that comes to my inbox once a day call is from inside dot com And this particular one is called the inside business. It’s a nice, you know, I can scan over and about five minutes a day, to catch the headlines on what’s going on in business in the US and around the world. And it’s very nice to be able to see that I mean, I’d say it’s kind of like taking the whole wall street journal and distilling it down. I tried to subscribe to The Wall Street Journal’s mailing lists, but they have so many, I tried for quite a while to find something that really would give me the highlights, without too much detail. And without too many charts, you know, I just want to be able to see bullet points as I as I scroll through. So I recommend that as an insider calm and you can subscribe, it’s free. And it’s really been opened up some good windows for me into what the US economy is doing, what global economy is doing and how, you know, kind of how the recovery is going, as we’re dealing with COVID fallout still. So Dominique, thank you again for being with us. We thank you for your time. It certainly was interesting and appreciate all of your insights, sharing your background and in so many ways with us. Thank you so much.

 

Dominique Tolbert  33:28 

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

 

Jonathan Bench  33:33 

We hope you enjoyed this week’s episode, we look forward to connecting with you on social media to continue discussing developments in global law in business. This podcast was produced by Harris Sliwoski, with executive producer Madeline Williams music composed by Steven Schmidt. Tune in next week for another episode. We’ll see you then.

 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai