At Harris Bricken, we keep close tabs on what is happening around the world, and we know that our friends and clients do, as well. We are happy to provide this podcast series: Global Law and Business, hosted by international attorneys Fred Rocafort and Jonathan Bench, where we look at the world by talking with business leaders, innovators, service providers, manufacturers, and government leaders around the world.

In Episode #68, we are joined by Sam White, serial entrepreneur and CEO at Freedom Services Group, a UK-based insurance agency.

We discuss:

We’ll see you next week for another exciting and informative episode when we sit down with Andrew Peaple from Asia Matters Podcast!

This podcast audio has been transcribed by an automatic transcriber.

Fred Rocafort  0:07 

Global law and global business go hand in hand, but never seem to keep pace with each other. The importance on the global stage of developing and developed nations waxes and wanes, while consumption and interconnectedness steadily increase all the while laws and regulations change incessantly requiring businesses to stay nimble. But how do we make sense of it all? Welcome to Global Law and Business hosted by Harris Bricken International Business attorneys. I’m Fred Rocafort.


Jonathan Bench  0:37 

And I’m Jonathan Bench. Every week, we take a targeted look at legal and economic developments in locales around the world as we try to decipher global trends in law and business with the help of international experts. We cover continents, countries, regimes, governance, finance, legal developments, and whatever is trending on Twitter. We cover the important, the seemingly unimportant, the relatively simple and the complex.


Fred Rocafort  1:02 

We hope you enjoy today’s podcast. Please connect with us on social media to comment and suggest future topics and guests.


Jonathan Bench  1:21 

Today, we’re joined by Sam white, the multi award winning CEO of freedom services, a UK based group of companies including action 365 polka insure and freedom brokers and sell insurance in Australia. Sam, welcome to global on business, we’d love to hear a little bit more about your background.


Sam White  1:39 

Thanks for having me. Um, yeah, so Oh, God, why do I start a lot, it’s a little bit like the Star Wars intro a long, long time ago, I set my first company up when I was 24. From my sister’s Conservatory. And, you know, at the time, I think I just wanted a bit more freedom. Which is ironic, because that is obviously the name of the company that I now run. And it’s a group of motor based businesses. So it’s a motor claims, TPA, so we handle motor claims on behalf of insurers. And I have a motor mga of my own which rights insurance business. And I have a motor brokers, which deals with the general public and sells policies directly to them. And then, a couple of years ago, I went over to Australia absolutely loved it, I thought that it would be a good place to start business up. And so launched a insurance for women. So a motor insurance product that’s specifically designed around women and supports other female entrepreneurs in Australia.


Jonathan Bench  2:52 

So can you explain a little more about what Action 365 is, we’d love to hear what inspired you to start it and how it satisfies a need in in the insurance field.


Sam White  3:00 

Yeah, so I mean, that was my first business. So, you know, I started it up because after, after leaving university, I got a job in motor claims company, and I knew absolutely nothing about it. And, you know, it’s not that I actually did a psychology degree. So, you know, setting up a claims TPA certainly wasn’t high on the agenda in terms of what I would want to be spending my time doing. But I got this job in this motor claims business, and it worked with motor insurance brokers. So you know, car insurance comes up for renewal, and you want to get a good price. And, you know, at that time, most people were buying insurance from their sort of local insurance broker. But that broker didn’t want to handle the claims themselves. And so they would outsource it to companies like this company that I worked with. And I just felt the, you know, the, the service that these brokers were looking for, and the service that the ultimate client required, and wasn’t necessarily being delivered in the way that I would would wish it to be delivered. So, you know, the, the initial idea for the business was was just to do it a bit better and to kind of improve upon what was in the market as it stood. And then, over a period of time, I started to realize there was a real disconnect between what insurance companies wanted from a claims handler, what brokers wanted, from a claims provider, and actually ultimately what what the customer’s needs were and so I started to kind of integrate and integrate those those three things. And that was where the motivation to set the other business units up was because, we solved one problem from a claims perspective, but until we had ultimate control of the whole supply chain, we were hitting barriers in terms of things that we wish to do that perhaps the the market wasn’t as receptive to as it could be.


Fred Rocafort  5:09 

Just now, you mentioned that you identified a need for for insurance services that better cater to, to women and their specific insurance needs. Could you tell us a little bit more about that? I mean, because for someone like myself, for example, who’s who’s not particularly well versed in the world of insurance, at first glance, it is hard for me to see where there could be that gap. So I’d like to hear a little bit more about some of the deficits that a women encounter when they’re dealing with, let’s say, the traditional insurance sector and how that can be remedied.


Sam White  5:48 

Sure, and, you know, it’s some of this stuff is, is more subtle than others, but I kind of there’s a great book that I read a couple of years ago, invisible women that the truth about data bias, I don’t know if you’ve, if you’ve seen it, it’s it’s a great book. But but it’s, it’s written by a lady who’s who’s analyzed pretty much everything that we use in today’s world, and sort of dissected what, what what those products do, and who they do them for. And so she makes the observation, she makes lots of observations. But medical science, for instance, the drugs that we use, the overwhelming majority of them have been tested on males. And as a result of that some of the drugs that we give for things like heart disorders are really much less effective in women than they are in men, which is obviously female biology is very different to male biology is tested on men, I mean, even down to the heart attack symptoms, that hospitals look for other symptoms that are prevalent in males, and not females. And so again, over 30%, more women die from a heart incident than than men do, because they don’t get recognized when they get into the hospital as quickly as their male counterparts would do. And then when you apply that lens, to, to motor, and seatbelts are designed for the male torso, so more more women dying in in car accidents than the men do. And you go on, surely that’s not the, you know, that, that I get that, but that can’t possibly be relevant to the product design. But But actually, it is because Financial Services is overwhelmingly run by and has been built by men, which is, you know, there’s not there’s no, I don’t think there’s a sort of deliberate bias here in that there’s a group of, you know, dark chattery men in a corner, deliberately designing products to, to not delight women, but obviously, you do design things from your own perspective. And so, you know, we looked at the policy wordings and the stupid stuff like contents cover would cover up things like golf clubs, and there’s obviously a lot more men that go golfing than women but things like your, your your baby equipment or handbags. I mean, a lot of women have very expensive handbags that that they weren’t generally covered in the in the underwriting document. And then we went out to the market, we did a big research process, we were lucky enough to do a media deal with a large media company over in Australia, the runs extensive sort of research panels before launching with a partner. And we really wanted to understand, you know, what women’s perception was of insurance. And, look, nobody really likes insurance. It’s a grudge purchase. And it’s generally you know, it’s not the sort of thing that you want to say that you do at parties, it’s not going to get anybody super excited to talk to you my, you know, my career’s insurances is likely to send people running for the hills. And women in particular, kind of they consider that insurances, you know, it’s a grudge purchase, it’s this thing I’ve got to pay for, I don’t really understand what I’ve got the policy wordings really confusing, and they’re going to rip me off when I have a claim and try and not pay me out. And then, you know, the other horrendous thing in the insurance industry, which has been tackled at the moment in the UK but hasn’t yet been tackled in Australia is dual pricing. So actually, insurance companies go out of their way to penalize customers that are loyal to them. The longer you stay with your insurer, the higher the price you pay. And as I say we’re tackling that with regulation in the UK, but they have haven’t started to tackle that in Australia. Now. What we found in our research is that loyalty was, was far higher on the list of emotionally important things to women than it was to men. You know, men could kind of deal with that churn, and we’re happy to go and look for the cheaper price on on renewal and, you know, move insurers, but actually women feel very aggrieved by the idea that they’ve given that their loyalty to a business, and the business hasn’t reciprocated that. So, you know, we, we just felt that there was a place to build something from a female perspective, and that we do ensure men. So we’re not saying we’re not saying, This is only for women. And as, as I often like to say, you know, I love Chinese food. But I’m not Chinese, I don’t think that that men should have issue with the fact that the product in itself has been designed with a woman in mind, it doesn’t mean that they won’t enjoy it, or they won’t appreciate the features that are in there, just as I enjoy and appreciate a number of things that have been designed for men in my everyday life. But we think that there is a very valid reason to step back and start the design process from a female perspective.


Fred Rocafort  11:23 

So I just want to jump in. I know this is I’m going into somewhat treacherous territory here, and I will support you, I’ll hold your hand, it will be fun. Yeah, I like the way you frame it, you know, you like Chinese food, you’re not Chinese and sort of alluding to why there might be some pushback from men? Who might say, Well, why do you need special insurance? You know, Why? What’s wrong with with just having insurance for everyone? I think he did a great job of explaining why that is. But it struck me as I listened to your answer that, at least here in the United States, in this moment in our history, the greatest objections that might be raised would be concerning the fact that you’re singling out women as a group, and sort of attributing some general characteristics, physical and otherwise. And I follow UK NEWS to some degree, I lived there for two years. And in fact, I would much rather read British newspapers than American ones. So I can I have some sense of what’s going on. And while perhaps when it comes to certain issues, surrounding gender, I think things are not quite as, I don’t know, the correct word would be but here in the US, we’re certainly in the midst of a very intense national conversation. Let’s put it that way about these topics.


Sam White  12:47 

Yeah. No, we aren’t we are in the UK as well. And everybody’s suitably terrified, not to say the wrong thing. But equally, you know, feeling uninformed about what is the right thing to say. So I, I do deeply understand the question. And I guess my point is that you’re quite right, you know, women are, you know, as with all humans, uniquely individual, but there are general characteristics in in any group that do prevail, and when you’re building products, you you do target markets, you know, that that is what marketing is about, and actually marketing is become more and more down to that individual level. I mean, I was I was chatting to somebody the other day about programmatic radio, where they are able to issue the radio advert specifically to the individual, and also time it so that, you know, if you’re driving down a freeway, you will see the banner on the side of the road and the radio will will pop up with the advert at the same time. And that will be designed around specific data that those organizations have about you as as an individual trying to best appeal to you. But this, there is some sort of core work that needs to be done that can be easily forgotten. In the a lot of the products at core basis, have not been designed with any other consideration other than a male perspective. So you know, to even chip away at that. I’ll be you know, I take the point that, you know, not all women have mothers for sure. But there are certainly more women that would be driving around in a car that would have a requirement to insure their handbag and their baby gear than then they will To ensure their golf clubs, and I’m happy to to kind of support that from a product design perspective.


Jonathan Bench  15:09 

So let’s turn back to the concept of the insurance industry. Can you tell us a little more about how the industry in the UK would differ from the US, the EU or even Australia.


Sam White  15:21 

And so I haven’t done any business in Europe in in, I’ve sort of had a little bit of a peek at the French and Spanish markets. But I certainly wouldn’t consider myself in a strong enough position to articulate the markets. I did spend some time in the States. And so I lived in California for a couple of years. Where are you guys, by the way, geographically?


Jonathan Bench  15:45 

I’m located in Salt Lake City, Utah.


Fred Rocafort  15:47 

I’m in Florida at the moment, but I’m officially working out of Seattle.


Sam White  15:52 

So spread all across, I’ve been to I think I’ve been to Utah, I’m sure I went skiing there once. But yeah, I just spent a couple of years in California. And the US market for motor is different to the UK, that one of the primary differences is that you, you have a limit of liability. So when you buy your insurance, you kind of pick what cover you’ve got. So you might say, I think, and this is my experience from a few years ago, but you would say I want $250,000 worth a cover for myself, and I want to end in $50,000 worth a cover for the third party. And you run the risk that if the claim exceeds that, then the third party could sue you personally. Whereas UK insurance is limitless liability. And actually, we have, you know, some some probably the most expensive market in the world from an excess of loss perspective, because some of the claims catastrophic claims are extremely large, in the UK, and Australia is different, again, that they sort of separate out the personal injury element from the vehicle element. So again, UK, it’s one premium, it covers you for everything. In Australia, there’s a state back scheme for personal injury, I’ll be at the insurance industry supports it. And then you buy your insurance for your car, which makes the underwriting a lot easier to manage. Because, you know, if you decide that you’re just launching a product as we did with stellar that just isn’t a CTP scheme, it just supports the car. And then you know, it’s easier to work out what your potential liability is going to be over a period of time. UK becomes a lot more complicated because of the the additional level of cover. Is that what you meant? Are you talking more in terms of the sorts of products that you would get or the attitude of consumers?


Jonathan Bench  18:00 

I’d like to hear more about those. The beauty of our podcast is that Fred and I are absolute generalist. And so even though you say I don’t know, I don’t really know the market in any way. That’s what you know, is far more than what we can even guess. And so we’re happy to have you even speculate about what you what you want to read on the back of a cereal box about insurance compared to what we know,


Sam White  18:22 

I see that that always puts me in a stronger position. If I’ve got an informed audience. However, some of the people listening maybe got far more. I mean, you know, most insurances is quite a challenging market. Worldwide, capacity is restricted. So you know what happens in insurances insurance is effectively just capital. And it’s where people are happy to put their capital to get a return. And you know, everybody’s chasing, decent, what we would say loss ratio results. Now, from my experience, when I was in the States, probably loss ratios were easier to predict, because your system allows people to well allows, your system insists that insurers declare their rates at the beginning of the year, and they’re not allowed to change them. In the UK, I can change my rates hourly, daily, minutely, if I want to. And so the market is is extremely reactive to market pricing. And so if I’m on a price comparison site, and I decide that I want to write more business than I’m currently writing, I have a choice that I can drop my rates for a period of time, drop my rates in certain segments, and to try and drive that volume. Whereas in in the States, you can’t do that you you, you decide what your rates are, you declare them and you kind of stuck with them. And the benefit from the American market from a capital viewpoint is that that gives consistency to your results, it’s easier for you to predict where things are going to end up at the end of the day. Whereas in the UK, it’s, you know, you when you’re trying to attract your ultimate loss ratios, it’s it’s very much a moving target. And that can make some capital markets quite uncomfortable to, to engage.


Fred Rocafort  20:29 

Sam I’m just following up on this. I wonder if there’s any relationship at all. And then if there is a relationship, you know, whether it plays out or or manifests itself in these differences that you’re, you’re talking about? it? Well, here in the US, we have incredible, but especially by European standards, right? We have these these incredible judgments that are that are handed out, especially in you know, personal injury cases and other similar cases. I don’t know if perhaps things have changed since since I was in law school a long time ago. But but certainly when I was in law school, right, that was one of the things that we studied the fact that you’d be looking at a CT in, in the UK, for example, you’d be looking at much lower awards than than the US. I imagine that there’s been a trend of some sort away from that. But perhaps there’s still a big gulf between the the kind of awards that are that are handed down by British courts and Australia for that, for that matter. So I just wonder if there is a connection to how the insurance between that, let’s say judicial reality and the way that the insurance industry operates in any jurisdiction?


Sam White  21:48 

Yeah, it’s an interesting one. And yeah, I looked at the claims market in the states as well, I mean, we write we don’t have punitive damages in the UK, which seems to be the sort of big difference. But what I found interesting is because of this cover issue, and in the States, if I’m a personal injury lawyer, and Joe smashes into Mary, and Mary’s really badly injured as a result of the accident, but Joe’s cover is only up to 125,000. And Joe’s got no assets, then what happens from what I could see, and, again, not my area of expertise, but what I saw was that, that nobody really wants that case, because the money ultimately you can, you know, a court can decide that they’re going to award a certain amount of damages. But if there’s no way to recover those damages from then, what’s the point, and so those cases wouldn’t get picked up. So so what I found in the legal market over there was, you know, the search for the perfect claim. And the perfect claim required either a third party that was had was very asset rich. And again, I saw some, you know, mitigative measures from the very wealthy, I mean, I lived in Beverly Hills for a period of time, and every single person had their own personal trust, that they kind of lock the assets into, so that if there was a legal case, whether it be a car accident or anything else, they were kind of protected from that now, in the UK, because of the way that insurance works, that could never happen. Because all insurance policy has unlimited liability for third party damages. So if Joe smashes into Mary in the UK and causes that level of damage, if he’s insured, that insurer will pay the full amount and actually, some of the awards are, you know, it’s it’s not out of the realms for significant millions of pounds worth of damages in serious injury cases to be to be awarded. And we have a you know, quite a robust additional insurance market on top of the primary cover the access of loss market for any claims that that are going to come in for over a million pounds is what’s used to cover that off. Now, Australia’s a bit of a weird hybrid of the two in the for the smaller claims in some of the states and the different states have different rules around this but in Queensland for instance, whiplash claims you you can actually be awarded quite a significant amount in comparison to both the US and the UK. You know, you’re talking 50 $60,000 but the number of people that will put a claim in in our Australia is tiny in comparison to the UK in the US that they’re very claims adverse. And so that sort of compensation culture that I think both the UK and the US suffers from, isn’t really prevalent currently in Australia, whether that will change in the future, I don’t know. But you’ve got this, this sort of two tiered system where people buy their CTP separate from from the primary policy. So you’ve got different insurers handling that and there’s, there’s limits on how profitable a CTP insurer is allowed to be in the government controls that and manages that through regulation.


Fred Rocafort  25:41 

So I’ve never been to Australia, but from what I’ve been able to pick up by talking to Australians and you know, just just watching things on the news and YouTube, I think I’ll leave out the weird part. But I guess one could, one could say that a hybrid of the UK and the US might actually begin to capture what what the place is like. So taking off from from there, I was hoping you could tell us a little bit about what it’s like to do business there, and what differences you’ve seen between Australia and the UK and the US, given the fact that he lived in California, moving, you know, beyond the realm of insurance, right, just just more generally, I’d love to hear more about what differentiates the Australian business culture from that in other places.


Sam White  26:29 

I love the Aussies, I love the country, I kind of fell in love with it, the minute I went over there, they’ve got a great work life balance. Yeah, I think they had a reputation for a period of time of being lazy, but I don’t find that at all, I find them very efficient. But they you know, they value their family, they value the free time and you will not catch an Ozzy in the office past five o’clock on a Friday that, you know, they’re off down the beach, the surfing the barbecuing, and to my mind, they you know, they know what’s important in life, but when they work in the working, I find them to be very open, and collaborative, you know, the, my experience with them has been absolutely fantastic. If, if they don’t want to do something they tell you very quickly and very directly. So you know, I always say, I’m from the north of England. And we sometimes get frustrated with the southerners because we feel that they don’t always tell us the truth of how they’re feeling they dress it up too much. And Northerners tend to be a bit more direct. And I find that the Aussies are exactly the same, you know, they’ll they’ll call a spade a spade, they’ll get straight into it. My experience in America from a business viewpoint wasn’t great to be honest. And you know, I am also very aware of the subjectivity of a certain time or place or situation. And I also I was in California and California may have a unique way of things but I found the the American business people that I dealt with, to be quite brutal in their approach to business there was that culturally, there’s this sort of attitude that anything goes in the name of business. And it’s all you know, All’s fair in love war in business, from from a US perspective, but I found that quite difficult to navigate, when actually you were trying to create Win Win situations. So I found scenarios where deals would get killed on the vine, not because they weren’t beneficial to both parties, but because of this almost win lose psychology that, you know, I have to lose in order for you to win. And therefore all benefits on the other side of the coin wouldn’t have to be removed. And this was, this was just my experience. And as I say, I get that it’s, it was a snapshot of time and in a particular area. But I, I’ve, I found Australia and have found Australia, a much more fertile ground to do business and to create opportunities, even more so than the UK. You know, we we do sometimes suffer I think in the UK from just how competitive the market is and overcrowded and the sort of dynamics that that can create.


Fred Rocafort  29:43 

That’s a fascinating insight. And I mean, there are aspects of that that we can pick up on. But of course, it’s not the same to hear an actual perspective, right as someone who has some more detached perspective While I lived in China for more than 10 years, and when I first went to China, I was I was a public servant, I had never worked in the private sector, and ended up making that transition in Asia. And I remember, in the in the early days of my time as a private sector employee, being somewhat shocked, right by what I perceive to be these very cutthroat tactics that the Chinese and others will would exhibit. And then to be fair, there’s a lot of bad. I think there were times when, at least initially, when I would romanticize, you know, the way things are done here in the US. And then over time, I had enough experiences that made me realize, well, things can, as you said, I mean, things can be quite brutal here. And without wanting to get too political. My wife is a newcomer to the United States. She’s She’s sort of figuring out, you know, how things work. And every once in a while, she’ll ask me a question. And she’s simply trying to understand how are things done? And explain, you know, she’ll have some sort of follow up. And then, you know, very often the way these conversations go is like, well, how does this work? For example, when it comes to health insurance, like, well, what happens if you don’t have a good job? And I find myself, as I respond to that thinking, yeah, that’s, it’s terrible. It’s one thing when you’re used to, to certain things, and then you just accept them as normal. But when you have to, sometimes you verbalize the way things are, no matter how successful you are, no matter how much money you’re making, you’re you’ll get to enjoy that for, at most a few decades, if you’re lucky, right. And in the name of that, right, the  incredible hardships that are imposed on others. And this is not to say that, well, the US is just terrible, and nothing bad happens elsewhere. But I do think that many Americans have something of a blind spot when it comes to, to some of what happens here. And I love the way you put it. And I think it’s great insight, when is not good enough, it has to be win lose. I think there’s a lot there. And I’m sure, some might take issue with that. But I find that to be very insightful.


Sam White  32:23 

You know, all countries have their own individual challenges, don’t they? I mean, you know, and also, there’s a perspective with which we see things based on our own level of experience. And also, you know, when you’re coming into a new area, I think, Winston Churchill said, separated by a common language. And I, when I got there, I didn’t, I didn’t quite get it until I lived there for about a year. And I realized that just because you speak the same language doesn’t mean you understand each other. And I realized that some of the things that I would just assume were given, I was completely missing the mark, in terms of what the interpretation on the other side was, and, and that was where, you know, I recognize that, that probably, you know, as somebody in England, I am more European, then I have synergies potentially, with the states. And I’d always grown up believing, you know, we buy into the American dream as well, we buy into, I had this idea that, you know, all entrepreneurs were embraced in America, because America had this, you know, view that anybody can be successful, and everybody deserved a chance. And it probably did pop my bubble somewhat. When I when I got there, because of this challenge. And I think, you know, if you live in a very individualistic society, and of course, you know, America is probably the strongest example of that. And certainly we have a lot of it in the UK as well, but it’s extremely strong in in the us then. Then, are you going to be that excited about somebody else bowling up and potentially taking some of these resources that you think are scarce, particularly somebody that isn’t from isn’t homegrown is from, you know, outside of the country? And I did, you know, I learned a lot and there was there was much much lessons learned, and probably more that could be learned in the future, but I do, I do find the psychology of business and then thrown into the mix the potential cultural differences. absolutely fascinating, and, you know, I myself have, have had sort of varying success in different areas and it took me Different experience of what that feels like.


Jonathan Bench  35:03 

Sam, it’s been a lot of fun to have you on the podcast with us today. We are nearing the end of our time. And we always love to end with recommendations from you from Fred and me. I know earlier you’d mentioned book invisible women truth about data bias. I didn’t know if that was going to be one of your recommendations. But I wanted to put it here so that we can include that recommendation on our on our blog, when we post this episode, but also, do you have any other recommendations for us? And feel free to elaborate on invisible women as well? I know you mentioned a little bit before, but do you have any other recommendations for us.


Sam White  35:35 

Mark Manson, Everything is Fucked a Book About Hope, is one of the best books that I’ve ever read in my entire life. And if you’re, you know, curious about how the world works, and curious about a slightly different perspective about those things, then I think that one’s a real eye opener. And then the book that I tell everybody to read, and I should actually get shares in this now, he really should, should, should support me and my lifestyle for the amount of times that I’ve recommended it. But the the Chimp Paradox is an absolutely incredible book about how the brain works. And the it just articulates in layman’s terms exactly why we do all of the stupid stuff that we we do in life.


Jonathan Bench  36:30 

Excellent. Thank you. For those, Fred, what do you have for us?


Fred Rocafort  36:32 

So I tried to check whether I had recommended this before the actual publication. So it seems like I have not disciplined safe, I’m going to assume that I have recommended this newsletter, really. And I’m going to go ahead and recommend an actual article, right. It’s just in case you know, so it’s in the interest of avoiding duplication, but basically, political puts out this newsletter on Canadian politics, called corridors. And I find it very interesting. I probably find Canadian politics more interesting than the average American. But if you find yourself on that camp, where you feel like Well, yeah, you’re right. I don’t find it interesting. Well, I would suggest that this is a great way of peeking your interest in, in Canadian politics, the live the newsletter does a great job of just explaining things and making them interesting, and then having them come to life. So the most recent installment of quarters is titled Why and election is definitely probably in the offing, which, as you might have guessed, talks about why we might be seeing Canadian elections in September. That’s where the Smart Money seems to be. Just from the get go, right? I think for for a lot of Americans, the fact that we don’t know when elections are going to take place that in itself is something a little a little surprising or shocking. And this is a good way of delving into that like, well, what why is it different? In addition to the very good job that the this article does, explaining why we might see elections September? What are the factors that go into that? There’s also quite a bit of content regarding Canada’s new governor general Mary Simon, who is the first indigenous person to hold that post. So I found I found that content to be very interesting as well. So I would suggest subscribing to corridors and if you don’t want to do that, at least read this latest edition, which came out today. And again, why in election is definitely probably in the offing by Nick Taylor, Vaizey. And, Jonathan, what about you? What do you have for us?


Jonathan Bench  38:48 

I’ve been exceptionally lazy this summer. So my recommendations are all video based. Now I feel like I haven’t read anything constructive for my brain and in quite a while outside of work. So I’m recommending a trio of Agatha Christie based shows that are on Amazon Prime right now. So the first is or deal by innocence. Second is the pale horse. Third is the ABC murders. I like these because I studied British literature in college so I always had an affinity you know, I liked the accents. I like the the scenarios. I liked the history component to these and and I had a lot of fun reading up on Agatha Christie and who she was I mean, I’ve heard her name quite a bit but didn’t know much about her. So I spent some time reading up on her background as well. So I like Rufus Sewell, who is one of the primary actors in the pale horse John Malkovich is is the primary in ABC murders. He plays Hercule Poirot Quadro is fun. So if you have a few hours, each of these is broken into three one hour long segments. So a lot of fun if you’re into murder mysteries, or all things, all things British. So those are my recommendations. There on Amazon Prime right now. So with that, Sam, I want to thank you again for spending time with us today we’ve really enjoyed it you made insurance palatable and more than palatable. I enjoyed it right and I’m and I’m one of those people who always says, If you say the word insurance, I’ll be asleep three seconds later. So, absolutely loved it.


Sam White  40:19 

You are right to say, palatable. I will move towards love a future day a bit more time maybe. Right?


Jonathan Bench  40:32 

It’s okay. Well, Fred and I are in the same boat. When we tell people we’re lawyers, people, people take three steps back right away. Anyway. So thank you again. It’s been fun and hope that we can catch up with you again in the future.


Sam White  40:42 

Yeah, that was lovely. Thank you. Good to meet you.


Jonathan Bench  40:46 

We hope you enjoyed this week’s episode. We look forward to connecting with you on social media to continue discussing developments in global law and business. This podcast was produced by Harris Bricken with executive producer Madeline Williams music composed by Steven Schmidt. Tune in next week for another episode. We’ll see you then.


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