At Harris Bricken, we keep close tabs on what is happening around the world, and we know that our friends and clients do, as well. We are happy to provide this podcast series: Global Law and Business, hosted by international attorneys Fred Rocafort and Jonathan Bench, where we look at the world by talking with business leaders, innovators, service providers, manufacturers, and government leaders around the world.

In Episode #63, we are joined by Alberto Villarreal, Managing Director at Nepanoa Transformation Advisory.

We discuss:

  • An inside look at international consulting firms.
  • Latin America (LatAm) as a marketplace and for back-office or company operations.
  • LatAm’s talented labor force and affinity for Western-style work culture.
  • Concerns for a company looking at utilizing LatAm, including security and costs.
  • Why companies with strong culture generally have an easier time establishing themselves in LatAm.
  • Advice for people considering a consulting career and pursuing an MBA at the University of Chicago.
  • Listening, and watching recommendations from:

We’ll see you next week for another exciting and informative episode when we sit down with Simon Igelman, as we discuss technology in law and international trade.

This podcast audio has been transcribed by an automatic transcriber.

Jonathan Bench  0:00 

Today we are joined by guest interviewer Adrian Cisneros Aguilar, a Harris Bricken. Attorney based in Mexico.


Fred Rocafort  0:07 

Global law and global business go hand in hand, but never seem to keep pace with each other. The importance on the global stage of developing and developed nations waxes and wanes, while consumption and interconnectedness steadily increase all the while laws and regulations change incessantly requiring businesses to stay nimble. But how do we make sense of it all? Welcome to global law and business hosted by Harris Bricken International Business attorneys. I’m Fred Rocafort.


Jonathan Bench  0:37 

and I’m Jonathan Bench. Every week, we take a targeted look at legal and economic developments in locales around the world as we try to decipher global trends in law and business with the help of international experts. We cover continents, countries, regimes, governance, finance, legal developments, and whatever is trending on Twitter. We cover the important the seemingly unimportant, the relatively simple and the complex.


Fred Rocafort  1:02 

We hope you enjoy today’s podcast. Please connect with us on social media to comment and suggest future topics and guests.


Jonathan Bench  1:22 

Alberto Villarreal is the founder of Nepanoa Transformation Advisory a consulting firm based in Chicago. Over his career as a transformation advisor Alberto has driven complex transaction programs for international companies related to integrations technology, finance, operations and global regulatory compliance. A native of Mexico, Alberto’s international experience includes a company and clients through transcendent projects in Mexico, Peru, Chile, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Venezuela, Panama, Costa Rica and the US. Alberto obtained a BBA with double majors in accounting and finance from Georgia State University and earned his MBA from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business with concentrations in strategic management, operations management, and entrepreneurship. Alberto, welcome to Harris Bricken, Global Law and Business.


Alberto Villarreal  2:11 

Jonathan, Adrian, thank you very much for having me, Jonathan, appreciate the candid introduction. I mean, I don’t think my mother speaks about me that way. So I greatly appreciate that.


Adrian Cisneros Aguilar  2:21 

Alberto. It is our pressure. Welcome to Harris Bricken’s Global Law and Business. Well, I’d like to start by asking you what led you to start in Latin America focus consulting firm? I understand that. In reality, I was going through through your website, we are talking about an internationalization services consultancy firm it is that correct?


Alberto Villarreal  2:40 

Thank you very much again. Yes, well, actually, the the name of our firm is called a Nepanoa Transformation Advisory, and Napanoa it literally means to a company. And now at all. Right? So now what was the language of the aspects the most important civilization in the pre pre Columbian era? And what drove me to start Napanoa, um, it was the number of projects that I did for multinational businesses operating in Mexico and the rest of Latin America. So Adrian, I spent 13 years at PwC advisory, and for some reason or another, I would always spend some time leading a project in Mexico, or in Colombia, or in Peru, right, you know, apart from the US engagements that I was involved in, more, the audience doesn’t know this. But you know, you do, I’m based out of Chicago. So every time I would go to Latin America, I would see the need for our services, right, which is a firm or a team that can understand the needs of a multinational business that operates in the US and in Europe, deal with the complexities of actually doing work in Latin America. What type of complexities are we talking about? We’re talking about regulatory complexities. We’re talking about cultural complexities. We’re talking about work complexities, right. So that is where we come in, we help businesses manage change in their operations in Latin America.


Adrian Cisneros Aguilar  4:10 

Alright, so would you say that understanding these complexities is the main advantage of choosing Nepanoa for business expansion over another, perhaps, larger or more well known consulting firm?


Alberto Villarreal  4:23 

You know, it’s one of the pieces but actually, even when we talk about the differentiators of Nepanao, I think there are four main differentiators for us agent. The first one is the team that we have, which is, you know, right now, based in the most important cities in Mexico, Allah Tam, you know, we have done it before, right? We are not going to be guessing. Right when it comes to negotiating a lease agreement. We’ve done that before. Right when it comes to implementing systems. We’ve done that before and we’ve done it once again for multinational businesses operating in a time. So that really gives us a match. The second one is our team. He’s based over there, right? So when you hire one of this large consulting firms, right, which I grew in one of them, I grew in PwC. You know, you’re really dealing with separate firms, they will never tell you this, right. But in the end, it’s the firm in us working with the firm in Peru, they may share the name. But when it comes to sharing resources, to sharing knowledge, it really becomes complex, right? Even between them, right? For us, we are one firm across the board, right? I’m based in the US and I work with the team that we have, and all of our resources have international experience, they have either worked abroad, or studied abroad, and they’re used to working with multinational businesses. And that becomes very important, because we go back to the culture, the way that we work in Japan, it’s different than the way that the company works in Europe and America, right. So that also is an advantage for us. And finally, we have a truly multicultural team, right? It is the same office guys, it is the same team, we work together through every project. And we provide that attention to our clients. So I think that those are the four more important differentiators of Nepanoa. And that’s what we bring to the table for our clients.


Jonathan Bench  6:11 

So Alberto I can tell you, you’re passionate about Latin America, what are some of the selling points that you use? When you’re talking to clients that are looking to expand? I assume some of them are already thinking, well, I want to go to Mexico, I want to go to Colombia. Maybe you try to sell them on on the larger Latin America picture. Can you tell us a little bit about what what your favorite things are about working with Latin America as a as a marketplace?


Alberto Villarreal  6:33 

Well, Jonathan, thank you for asking that question. And the passionate piece that you mentioned, it’s very important, right? You don’t start a business that you’re not passionate about. Especially my case, right? You know, with a 13 year career at PwC, at director and then jumping in starting my own firm, I had to be passionate about it. And and I have always been very passionate about bridging that gap. Right? For me, it was almost a dagger to the heart every time I would hear, you know, a client say, Oh, well, we have to go to Colombia, you know, and a little smirk, or like, it’s not gonna work out. Right. So, you know, I don’t know, you have seen, you know, the Chicago Bulls documentary, which is pretty much the Michael Jordan’s documentary that he says, You know, I took it personal. Well, that’s what happens to me, right? I take it personal is like no, no work with us. And the experience is going to be completely different, you will see. So when you talk about going to let him there’s really two ways to go to a town, right? The first one is going after the market, right. And what I mean by this is taking your product or service and offering it to the Latin American market. Now you can say Latin America and think that the whole market is the same. But who is different than Colombia and Argentina? Brazil is definitely different. Right? I mean, they do not even speak Spanish. Rarely were there, you’re dealing with with with the Portuguese language, right? Mexico the size, the proximity of the United States, it’s completely different than working in Costa Rica. Right. But you know, when you go after the market, let’s take Mexico for example. Right, one of the pieces about going for the Mexican market is the proximity, right? One of the key things that you have is that it’s the proximity, it’s very close to United States, and you’re going to be surprised of how North American the Mexican culture is, right? When you talk about time zones, when you talk about working hours when you talk about even speaking English, right? Many people do speak English in Mexico. Right? So you really want to understand that market and go after, right? Another point right to go into Latin America, it’s developing economies across the board, right? Most of these countries are growing specifically when you focus around Peru, Colombia, Brazil, Chile, and Mexico, those five economies are growing, right, and they are thirsty, right for different products, products that come from the outside of their borders, into their market. The use of technology, e commerce all across LatAm has grown tremendously, not only for the last five years, but if you look at the last 12 months, guys, when you look at you know what COVID-19 did? You know, you look at the countries that grew the most from an e commerce perspective, you’re gonna see countries from Latin American, that list, right? They are now getting used to interacting via the Internet to buying products via the internet, which was not the case. Right? But it truly depends guys as to as to what you’re selling, right? I mean, when you really want to go into whatever it depends on the services that you’re offering, the products that you’re offering, and it may fit differently into the different markets that you see in the town. So that’s the first way that you can go into Latin America, guys, but the second way, it’s the operations piece, right? It’s the operations part. Its manufacturing. It’s all centers. It’s back office operations, where you now know that in Latin America, there are capable people to actually do the job. Right. So there are four items there in operations that I think are very Important for any company that is looking to move operations to Latin America. The first one is you’re going to find a committed, responsible and educated workforce. Right? Of course, there’s different countries and within the countries, you have different areas. But if you partner with a company like us, like Nepanoa, we can help you find the right city for your company, for you can find that labor that you’re looking for. The second piece is proximity, right, you’re working in the same time zone, that gives you a lot of transparency, right, that enables you to hop on a plane and be there within, you know, a 12 hour timespan and I’m talking about getting from New York all the way to Argentina, right, which would be the longest route. But in the end, we’re close. And we share time zones. As I mentioned before, when you go in for the Latin American market, when we talk about operations, well, yes, you know, we have an American culture, the reason North American culture of working for some of these companies, there are many, many cases of successful North American companies that operate in Mexico on the time and they operate very well, sometimes even better than the operating their headquarters. And the last one, which I think is very important for businesses that are thinking of moving operations to let him his people love working for foreign companies, you know, there is a sense of pride in the work that they do. And the fact that the products that they’re producing are not only for their home country, but are also, you know, for expert.


Jonathan Bench  11:32 

Alberto, I know, a second ago, you mentioned that sometimes clients hesitate, or they look at you sideways, when they say we’ve got to go to Latin America. What are some of those concerns that clients typically expressed? I know, it’s difficult to talk in general terms, and feel free to go into any specifics you’d like. But what are the what are the clients generally hesitant about?


Alberto Villarreal  11:50 

Great question, Jonathan, thank you for asking that. I mean, really, most of those doubts are those concerns, stem from a lack of knowledge about the country you’re going to be working in, or even the region within the country that you’re going to be working in. But what do we always hear is security. And to that, you know, I always try to hone in a little bit more in that in that point, and I asked them, Okay, what about security? Well, you know, I read an article here and there baublebar I heard the story. It’s always anecdotal. And yes, you know, I’m not gonna lie, you know, there are there are security issues in some countries, and Latin America, specifically within within some regions of those countries in Latin America. But when you actually start looking at the facts, right, and you realize that the city where I live in Chicago, you know, has a, you know, its murder rate, it’s, you know, very, very high when compared to any of the cities in Latin America. Right. And you start putting, you know, those facts on the balance, you realize, okay, well, it’s actually not that dangerous, right. And there’s always a way to mitigate that risk. The second item that, you know, clients races, Oh, I thought it was going to be less expensive. And here’s the thing, guys, you know, companies immediately think that the cost of what they pay in some countries in Asia, let’s take China, for example, it’s immediately got to be the same in Latin America. And that’s not the case. It’s very difficult to compete with Asia in terms of cost. But the advantages that we mentioned in the last question, make up right, for, you know, operating in the TAM versus China, it’s not specifically a cost play. Right, you need to consider that you’re going to have people you need to consider the transparency, you need to consider the timezone you need to consider the language, right. This are items that should weigh, you know, in your decision of operating in the time, but those are the two main concerns that we received. Number one is security. And the second one is, it’s the cost of it.


Jonathan Bench  13:55 

So would you say that education is really a key component of what you do? Probably first with any client?


Alberto Villarreal  14:01 

Correct. It’s a matter of listening to those concerns, and really, you know, investigating as to what triggers them, right. But also being able to show the facts right, many times the concerns that they bring, how strong base, right? But there are other times that it’s anecdotal, right, and you can’t base this type of decisions and anecdotes, you actually need to look at the data and see how things can actually work. Right. That’s what you have so many companies that are successful operating in LA Tam, despite, you know, this concerns,


Adrian Cisneros Aguilar  14:35 

Speaking of concerns. What would you say that the challenges facing clients outside the US are, as opposed to those facing us clients regarding Latin American expansion?


Alberto Villarreal  14:50 

Adrian, the challenges, they could be the same, but they really are. And let me tell you why. I really do believe that American companies have it easy and Latin America, that companies from other parts of the world. And that has to do you know, with, you know, with a cultural aspect of the way the Latin America sees the United States or many other countries in America see the United States, right where the adaptation happens faster than it is for, you know, companies from other side of the world. Now, with that being said, I am a firm believer that even though each country has its own culture and its own ways of working, I do believe that companies can be can have a very strong culture and actually operate wherever in the world under that culture. What do I mean by that? So what I mean is that when you talk about the rules of the road, of any company, right, think of Toyota, right? If we were talking about automotive, right, or think of Coca Cola, we were talking about the beverage industry, or Heineken in the beer industry, which is one that I know very well. I believe that this companies have such a strong culture within them, that it doesn’t matter where they’re operating, they’re operating in the US, and Mexico and Brazil, and Chile, right, they are able to, you know, to adopt their culture anywhere, right. So, you know, to your original question, which was do US companies have a different or have more challenges than companies from other parts of the world to operate on time, it really is not the case, I think it’s easier for you as companies, but it’s easiest, for those companies that already have a strong culture, in ways of working within them to just expand the laptop. That’s the way we see it.


Jonathan Bench  16:51 

Alberto, you spent over nine years working at PwC curious how your experience there helped you jump, first of all, just jump into this entrepreneurial experience yourself, but also to deal in a in a global marketplace where you’re now operating?


Alberto Villarreal  17:08 

Jonathan, I spent 13 years to be exact, at PwC, a beautiful company pierluisi. It’s always ranked among the best companies to work for not only in America, but in the world. And it’s a company that really treats you know, their their people the right way. And it’s a great role, because you get to interact with many companies resolving very important issues. And that’s exactly what produce he taught me. Since I started, Jonathan, when I was an associate, I will never forget, I was so recent, you know, college graduate, and they sent me to a project in Chile and in Peru, the divestiture of the pension funds of a large financial services organization. And right at that time, I realized the value that we were bringing to the table by being able to drive this engagement internationally for them, particularly in my case, you know, I was at liaise on that cultural liaison between the US and you know, their operations in Chile and Peru. And that happened throughout my career time and time again, in different projects. So that experience that I had with one of the largest advisory firms in the world easkey, for me, to go out to clients right now, because I have actually done the work, I have actually been there. Right. So you know, that experience, you know, really, really enables me to be confident, and to and to start methanol. Now, as being one of the largest consulting firms of the world, the waste of working of PwC are top right, the way you collaborate with your teams, the way that you treat the client, the respect to the client, the work deliverable. So growing up, you know, in that atmosphere was very, very helpful. So I would lie to you if I told you that Knepper Noah doesn’t have many of those things embedded in it, right, you know, the way we treat our clients, the quality of everything that we put out to the public and also to our clients, the way we treat our clients, how we put our clients first, right, so all those things, you know, of course, they come from me because I started up a NOAA, but I learned to work for 13 years at PwC, you know, and I grew to a leadership position there, you know, when I was a transformation director for them. And then the final piece that I think was also very important in my career at PwC was, you know, how you treat people, right, you know, as we built the Bugzilla. We want Knepper not to be one of the best places to work, we want our resources to be very happy, but more importantly, to grow and be challenged with the projects that they are doing with our clients. And that’s something that that I that I really value and that I’m very glad that I learned, you know, throughout my life Cause my past life, but throughout my my career.


Jonathan Bench  20:04 

So what advice do you have for a college student or graduate student who’s considering going into the consulting world, especially for one of the big global consulting companies?


Alberto Villarreal  20:14 

I have two pieces of advice for that the first one is be as paunch. Right, just learn a lot, you’re going to be working with a lot of different people, you’re going to be working with a lot of clients as well. So make sure that you are just learning and learning and learning and learning throughout the different projects, both internally and externally, the good things and the bad things, because that way, you’re going to start shaping who you are as a professional, what do you stand for? Right? And what do you actually want to do? Jonathan, I’m going to deviate a little bit. But, you know, I believe that I have lived three lives, right. And I believe that I will live four lives. And what I mean by this is that, you know, I grew up playing tennis and soccer, right? That’s how I ended up in America. I had a I had a soccer scholarship at Georgia State University, I had a full ride. And I consider that my athletic life, which was my first life that gave me a lot of values, right? You know, hey, perseverance, hard work, responsibility, positive attitude, many things that I use day to day, that I think that my second life was my academic life. And it really started at 18. You know, I would lie to you, if I told you that I was the best high school student I really wasn’t. But I was a great college student, right? You know, I graduated with 3.6 GPA, double major accounting and finance. But that’s where my academic life started. And I don’t believe that my academic life ended until I was 33 or 34. And I’m still learning everyday, don’t get me wrong, but what I mean like formal academic life, right, so we’re talking about 12-14 years after graduating from college, going to Chicago Booth, right, you know, for for my MBA, but all that professional adventures, all those professional adventures that I had, you know, in between college and Business School, and then starting to panola, I still consider those part of my academic life, which was my second life. Right now, I’m in my third life, which is the entrepreneurial life, right, which is, hey, starting businesses having a true impact, you know, and other businesses. And that’s what we’re doing right now. So my advice to college students that are graduating want to go into consulting is, number one be a sponge. And the second one, I will tell to you before a partner, at whatever firm that you choose to work with, will tell you his trade to your client, as if it was your business. That was one of the best advice that a partner gave to me when I was very young, and I took it to heart. You know, there are gonna be occasions where you really don’t know what to do, right? Especially, you know, as you as you grow and consulting, and you need to think, okay, if this business was mine, how would I treat this problem? What would the solution be if this business was mine? And that’s how you should approach everyday in consulting.


Adrian Cisneros Aguilar  22:57 

So our continuing on this line of giving pieces of advice to not only to students but to young entrepreneurs, who are starting out with their own consultancy firms? What would you say are the main challenges when you’re selling intangible such as consultancy services, as opposed to begin the startup, a dad that sells a product an app or, or something that is very trendy now, such as a FinTech app or something like that? How did you manage to overcome those challenges?


Alberto Villarreal  23:31 

So let’s start by stating that I don’t consider at least Nipa, Noah services to be intangible. They are very tangible. And the tangibility of them come when you show the impact, right? When you show how much time you saved, when you show how to do things, right the first time, how you show how you’re mitigating the risks that were identified before. And in the end, it does result in something tangible, it results in more sales, it results in a more efficient operation. It results in a new facility, in a country where perhaps you thought you were never gonna operating, it results in selling your product into many CDs in a foreign country that maybe you thought you were never going to sell into. So, you know, from that perspective, I really don’t think it’s that challenging. I think the most challenging piece is actually being able to present that opportunity for people that haven’t considered it before. Right, you know, for people that think that it is so difficult to operate or to sell your product internationally. That’s what I think it’s the most challenging, right? Because then you get into, you know, a discussion around the possibilities and we talk about possibilities. Well, as you know, they are endless, right. But from a tangible perspective, I think of our services as very tangible, very, very tangible, where if we in combination with the client Take the wrong decision, believe me, that impact can be very, very negative. And that is very tangible. But most of the time, right, it’s positive, there’s nothing like seeing, you know, a good project be successful.


Adrian Cisneros Aguilar  25:14 

Okay, let’s move on to your academic life, I find that very interesting because I lecture myself at the university level. So I understand that one of your alma matters is a University of Chicago. So what attracted you to that university for your MBA,


Alberto Villarreal  25:32 

the University of Chicago has a very special place in my heart, because I go back often, and I still have friends. There are teachers, there are professors there, you know, as well as alumni and current students. So I really like the University of Chicago, the community there. And the two and a half years that I spent doing my MBA at Chicago Booth have been some of the best times of my life. Why did I choose the University of Chicago or Chicago Booth School Business as, as as my school of choice, and it is very interesting. Even though I already had a double major in accounting and finance, I always consider myself very good in what people wrongly call soft skills. I hate the term soft skills, but that’s how people call them. And what do we mean by this? I mean, skills like teamwork, right, interpersonal skills, selling skills, networking skills. And I thought, and after going to booth, I know, I was correct. At the time, I thought that I was lacking analytical skills I really did. So when I analyzed other business schools, specifically in the area, because I was working at PwC. So I didn’t want to stop working for two years and go a full time and do it and go into a full time MBA, I wanted to continue working while I went to school. And the reason is very simple, because I knew that I wanted to do consulting, right, I knew already knew that I wanted to start an EPA NOAA someday. So I thought, well, why am I going to miss out on this two years of professional experience while studying? Right, so I did both at the same time, I did the weekend program at Chicago Booth. And when I analyzed the schools in the area, right, you know, how long which is a fantastic school? You know, we have a little yellow here in Chicago. Well, I mean, if you look at the region, right, you have Ross, right, you know, which is University of Michigan, you have Mendoza, Notre Dame, you have Indiana University, of course, there’s many great universities in the Midwest. I really liked booth because it was a place where I felt very uncomfortable. I’m honest, I got to the meet and greets, and I was, you know, meeting people. And I was like, Oh, my God, you know, the people here know, things that I have no idea about, right? And I felt very uncomfortable having these conversations, I felt uncomfortable. I guess, acknowledging how ignorant I was in many different areas, but particularly on the analytical side, right? See, booth is a place that puts numbers to everything to every decision, right? And God, we trust, everyone else must bring data. That’s something that you hear often at Chicago Booth. And that’s why I chose Chicago Booth. And I’m very glad I made that decision. From every aspect from a professional aspect. From a personal aspect. I met some of my best friends at Chicago Booth, I think it was the right choice.


Adrian Cisneros Aguilar  28:32 

Would you say that that same mindset diet, that same way of looking at things of approaching problems it permeates in Chicago as a city? Is that why you chose Chicago as a base of operations for your time


Alberto Villarreal  28:45 

work? Ah, great question. And no, I have never thought of it that way. I don’t think you want to get me started on how Chicago is Ran? I think we will be speaking for four hours and we can get into a very lengthy debate. But no, I’ve been in Chicago since 2010. My family is very happy here. I’m happily married to a wonderful woman, she she’s an attorney, corporate attorney. And we have two kids, ages five and four. They’re 13 months apart. And we’re just we just love the city. Nowadays, other than the decision of where to live more than Okay, we’re smart. Here’s where my clients are. It’s really where are you comfortable, especially after the last 14 months, don’t you think? Right, especially in professional services. If you’re talking about manufacturing, that’s different, right? Because you actually need a facility you need people to get there, you’re building something. But when it comes to services, well, as I mentioned, right, my team is in Mexico and Latin America. I’m here in Chicago, right? You know, if I need to travel, I travel. I will be in Mexico City next week with a client, but we’re very happy in Chicago. Now. I’m going to backtrack a little bit there. In 2010 when I was moving right You know, PwC told me, hey, Alberto, we need you either in Houston or in Chicago. And the reason that I chose Chicago at the time was because of the business schools because it was already part of my plan to go to business school. And Houston is a beautiful city, great city. But when I looked at the top schools there, I saw that Rice was the top school. And when I compared it to the top schools in the Midwest, I thought that the Midwest had a had a stronger case, when it came to, to business schools. So that’s how we ended up in Chicago, and I just never left.


Jonathan Bench  30:31 

There, too. It’s been great having you on the podcast with us today, we are looking forward to catching up with you again in the future and getting your take on developments in Latin America. We always like to end the podcast with recommendations from you and from and from us as well. So we’d like to ask you, what what have you read lately listened to watched that you think would be interesting to the audience.


Alberto Villarreal  30:52 

Thank you very much, Jonathan. Thank you very much, Adrian, it has been a pleasure to talk with you today about international business, specifically, Tam, thank you for giving me the opportunity to share, you know, the experiences and what we’re leaving, you know, I’ve never known on a day to day basis, a couple of recommendations. Thankfully, we’ve been super, super busy. But I always give myself, you know, time to read either good articles, good books. So staying on the topic of what LatAm I will ask you to follow the US Mexico foundation. It’s a truly by National Foundation, it’s it’s based in DC, but it’s really, it’s by national, right, its members are from the US and in Mexico, and they consistently release information about the US Mexico relationship from, you know, different articles of think tanks, think tanks, you know, with Mexico in the US to propose policies that, you know, may get to the, to the leaders in the government, right. And it’s important to stay in tune. So I really enjoy the materials that they put out, you know, when they’re putting things out, you know, on a on a weekly basis. And then the second one more than the recommendation, it’s actually a piece of advice. And that is don’t be afraid to work internationally. Right, you know, as big as the United States is and as as strong as a power as it is, you know, the world is no shrinking right? Little by little by little by little. And we need to learn to take advantage of, you know, a global supply chain, we need to take advantage of the knowledge that we have in people across the globe. So don’t be afraid of working internationally, particularly in Latin America, there are way more advantages and their disadvantages of doing so. And of course, if you ever want to have a chat or need a perspective, about how to do it, and if you’re already doing it, how to do it better, you know, please feel free to reach out to me, I am, you know, always available. And it’s very easy to get in touch with me and my email or Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn. You know, I’m very, very responsive.


Jonathan Bench  33:02 

Adrienne, what do you have for us today?


Adrian Cisneros Aguilar  33:04 

I have a couple of recommendations here. Both are books, actually. One of them is one of my favorite books ever. It was written by a Chinese Canadian called Brian Wong. He is the founder and CEO of cap, an international e marketing agency. Basically what what the book says is that everyone tries to imitate other to have been successful in their respective fields, okay, because you simply because that that we worked, what he recommends you do is the opposite, okay, you have to go up script and be yourself and gives you 70 to two page long pieces of advice on how to do that how to develop your own style, so that you end up selling yourself pitching yourself as opposed to pitching your business and as the main formula to get wherever you want, whether whether you are starting out a business or in life in general. The second recommendation is in the Spanish language. It’s authored talks in both Italian Portuguese, sometimes in Spanish, and it’s called export engineering in general export ASEAN, you might actually find it interesting, Alberto, because he mentions in this book and many things that you explain to us today as to what are the main challenges facing companies who want to expand the difference between exporting an operating and selling abroad how to how should you structure your internationalization plan, how to run an export checkup? The attitude towards internationalization? Well, Joe just mentioned about nothing afraid of working internationally as the key of being successful abroad. I highly recommend those books. Excellent.


Jonathan Bench  34:41 

Thank you. And my recommendation today is is not too far afield from what I usually recommend, which is something spy related, right? I mean, I love spy novels. So this was a recommendation from Fred and this is john the Caray passed away not too long ago, I think 2019 British spy writing group His name started writing post World War two kind of when the Cold War was really heating up. So his first novel is called The Spy Who Came in from the cold. And I listened to the audio book through Amazon. And it was interesting as a first novel, you kind of don’t know what to gauge how to gauge the writers future works. And this one was turned into a movie, which I haven’t seen yet. But it was very fun. Set post World War Two, mostly in Europe, but also Berlin. And it’s a fun, I won’t give away the plot. But it’s fun because in the middle of the book, I couldn’t tell if I was being told the truth or not. And so I was I was put on my guard for about half of the book trying to figure out if what I was actually reading hearing in the story was happening or whether I was, I was part of this grander spy plot. So a lot of fun. If you like spy novels, this one I think, was considered a classic, The Spy Who Came in from the cold by John Lecarre. A. Without Alberto, we want to thank you, again for being with us. We appreciate your insight, and certainly look forward to following your work as we go on. Thank you, Jonathan. Thank you, Adrian. It has been an absolute pleasure.


Adrian Cisneros Aguilar  36:11 

Alberto, what a pleasure.  Let me say it’s always a pleasure to see a country made or been successful abroad. Because it proves to all of us, regardless of the country that if you have a clear vision clear objectives, you can be successful wherever you are.


Jonathan Bench  36:25 

Thank you for that. I appreciate it very much. We hope you enjoyed this week’s episode, we look forward to connecting with you on social media to continue discussing developments in global law and business. This podcast was produced by Harris Bricken with executive producer Madeline Williams music composed by Stephen Schmitt. Tune in next week for another episode. We’ll see you then.


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